Podcast: Still Processing

The New York Times asked more than 500 TV insiders and experts to select their 10 favorite shows that premiered in the 21st century. That survey of the 100 best TV shows published this week.

There’s lots of golden age and prestige TV on it — “Mad Men,” “Game of Thrones,” “Succession,” “Severance” — but also some outliers that illustrate a medium in flux. In the last 25 years, we’ve started talking about TV more seriously, treating it like an art form. But what kind of art form is it now?

On today’s episode, Wesley is joined by Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan, the hosts of The Ringer podcast, “The Watch,” to talk about how they voted and what this list tells us about where TV has been, and where it might be going.

This week’s episode will be about the New York Times list of the 100 Best TV Shows of the 21st Century (full list here). See you tomorrow!

Singer-songwriter Ella Langley’s country tune “Choosin’ Texas” entered the Billboard Hot 100 chart last November, and it hasn’t left. It’s just tied the record for the most nonconsecutive weeks at No. 1: 22 . (Sorry, Mariah Carey.)

Wesley Morris is a student of the chart and he’s noticed that in recent years certain songs seem to hang around for a long, long time. These chart toppers are starting to feel more like chart cloggers. Why is this happening?

His curiosity cannot be contained for another week. So he’s going to Chris Molanphy, a pop music critic and the host of Slate’s “Hit Parade” podcast, for answers. Together, they recall chart trends, think about Billboard’s tracking metrics, and consider what kind of choice “Choosin’ Texas” is.

It has been 25 years since the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, and Wesley has been reflecting on what has changed since then — particularly when it comes to comedy.

The first film he saw in theaters after the attacks was “Zoolander,” which opened to mediocre box office numbers and mixed reviews. The movie became a flashpoint as the world wrestled with questions about what was funny and when it would be OK to be funny again. And that uncertainty about what American comedy is, whom it’s aimed at and whether it can be therapeutic may never have gone away.

This week, The Times’s comedy critic, Jason Zinoman, sits down with Wesley to remember the debates about comedy in the aftermath of the attacks, and to think through how that period changed the art form in ways that we’re still experiencing today.

This year’s summer movie season proved that the “Toy Story” franchise still has some juice, that “The Odyssey” can spark endless debates, and that “The Invite” might be the sleeper film of the year.

But according to Wesley Morris, we’re still in a summer movie drought. He can’t help himself! His nostalgia for the movies of summers past is as strong as it was last year.

So, once again, Wesley invites Sam Anderson, staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, to go back in time. This week, they travel to 1986, where the multiplex marquee reads: “Ruthless People” and “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.”

Anita Baker’s second album, “Rapture,” was released in 1986 and became a breakout hit for the R & B singer from Detroit, winning two Grammys and selling eight million copies worldwide. The album’s eight tracks defined her signature sound — what Baker liked to call “fireside love songs with jazz overtones” — and solidified her as a giant of the Quiet Storm radio era.

But while the singer went on to produce four more albums, most notably her follow-up, “Giving You the Best That I Got,” in 1988, she hasn’t maintained the mainstream presence of her “Rapture” years.

Today, Wesley wonders: Is Baker underrated, properly rated, or just kind of … forgotten?

He brings these questions to Danyel Smith, former editor at Billboard and editor in chief of Vibe Magazine. Together, they luxuriate in Anita Baker’s “Rapture” while wrestling with her legacy.

What did we get for our country’s 250th birthday, a.k.a. the semi-quincentennial? An Ultimate Fighting Championship cage match on the White House lawn? A sparsely attended Great American State Fair? An underwhelming logo?

The last time we had an anniversary this massive, it was 1976 — the bicentennial — and the celebration was everywhere: in our movies, in our books, in our Saturday morning cartoons.

What happened this year? Wesley Morris is perplexed.

Jennifer Schuessler, a Times reporter who covers intellectual life and ideas, has talked to state planners and historians alike, and attended semi-quincentennial events across the country. Together, she and Wesley mull over the circumstances that led this year’s birthday bash to fall flat, and they celebrate the bicentennial gifts that keep on giving, 50 years later.

After five weeks of action, the World Cup is finally coming to an end, a tournament that will be remembered as much for its feats of athleticism — the precision passes and laserlike goals — as for the passionate fans and spirited team rivalries. No wonder soccer is called the beautiful game.

Wesley and his guest, Pablo Torre, host of the podcast “Pablo Torre Finds Out,” also see the action on the pitch as something more: pure cinema. They tick down a list of reasons the matches — and the culture surrounding them — are theatrical. Cue the lights, the cameras and the Viking score. These games have proved more than ready for their Oscar-worthy close-up. Don’t forget the pomade!

Olivia Rodrigo’s third record, “You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love,” is a 13-song concept album that imagines the arc of a young relationship from desperate yearning, to domestic coupling, to eventual dissolution and heartbreak. It might be Album of the Year.

To Wesley Morris, the dating world has only sharpened the 23-year-old’s song craft. Sure, she’s talented and can write a ballad like no other. But musically and lyrically, she’s evolved. She’s both an old soul and very 2026. Which, when compared to other current pop stars like Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars and Ariana Grande, makes her really intriguing.

All things considered, Wesley has thoughts. And he couldn’t think of no better conversation partner than pop music journalist Caryn Ganz, who profiled Rodrigo in 2023 and has continued to follow her career closely.

Forget the hot dogs and apple pie. Wesley has one thing on his mind this Fourth of July — potato salad! The moment has stirred up some really strong feelings for this classic summer staple and how it lives up to the country’s ideals of what it is and could be.

Wesley takes to the streets of New York City and back to The Times’s Cooking Kitchen to test out his theory against his family’s recipe for potato salad. Is it the beacon of hope and possibility that he thinks it is? Along the way, he’s joined by a two-time James Beard Award winner and food historian, Jessica B. Harris, to answer this essential question: Does potato salad belong on the Mount Rushmore of national dishes?

A few weeks ago, “Cannonball” hosted its first live show at the 2026 Tribeca Festival.

Wesley Morris thought to himself, “What could we talk about in front of a bunch of New Yorkers that would be interesting to them?” And then the answer came to him: New York movies! Movies about New York City.

Joining him for the conversation is Cynthia Nixon, one of our great New Yorkers. She’s made iconic work in the city (like, of course, “Sex and the City”) and is a fierce advocate for the TV and film industry to continue making work here. Also, no big deal, she ran for governor in 2018.

Together, Wesley and Cynthia chat about three N.Y.C. movies of their choice: “Breakfast at Tiffany’s,” “The Taking of Pelham 123" and “The Wiz.”

It’s no secret that Steven Spielberg is fascinated with the cosmos. His latest aliens-are-among-us action thriller, “Disclosure Day,” follows a TV weatherperson (Emily Blunt) and an encryption specialist (Josh O’Connor) as they attempt to understand their connection to life beyond this planet. In doing so, they get entangled in a government cover-up.

Ahead of the movie’s release, Wesley Morris spent time with Spielberg and wrote a profile of him for The New York Times Magazine. The 79-year-old director’s appetite for telling stories on the big screen is undiminished — he’s preparing to make his first western — but Wesley writes that as Hollywood adapts to the streaming era, “the idea of a Steven Spielberg has felt endangered.”

And so, there’s only one person for Wesley to call when a new Spielberg drops: Eric Hynes, Wesley’s pal and former co-worker from Kim’s Video in New York City. They started their Spielberg conversation over 25 years ago as young cinephiles. On today’s episode, it continues.

Together, they consider the evolution of aliens in Spielberg’s work, relive memorable onscreen sequences and think about the strength of the filmmaker’s more-than-half-century canon.

“Obsession” is about a guy who makes a wish for a girl to love him “more than anyone in the entire world.” What follows is a classic horror movie trope: the girlfriend from hell. One of the movie’s tag lines is “be careful who you wish for.” And younger audiences are flocking to see “Obsession,” making it a genuine Gen Z phenomenon.

The film’s writer-director-editor, Curry Barker, is also part of that generation. The 26-year-old, who had previously been making content for YouTube, is now responsible for a film that has made over $230 million (so far) on a budget of $750,000. Hollywood has taken notice. Barker has been offered an eight-figure deal for his next movie, sight unseen.

For Wesley Morris, the success of “Obsession” raises a bigger question about relationships today: Is this how the young folks think about love—as something that should appear instantaneously, without effort, but might also ruin their lives?

With all this in mind, Wesley invited Angelica Jade Bastién, a pop culture critic with New York Magazine, onto the show to ask, “Are the kids all right?”

Each spring, in the months leading up to the Tony Awards, Wesley Morris tries to see as many Broadway shows as he can. And this season’s spree (including “Ragtime,” “Cats: The Jellicle Ball,” “Proof,” “Dog Day Afternoon” and “Giant") left him with the question: Where are the challenging shows?

There were some great performances, but the productions seemed designed to reflect his values and make him feel good. Doesn’t the best theater raise uncomfortable questions, and not give clear answers? Shouldn’t the shows vying for Broadway’s top awards be a bit more difficult?

To work through these feelings, and to help wrap his head around this season, Wesley invites Helen Shaw, The Times’s chief theater critic, to compare notes.

A list, according to The Times’s co-chief restaurant critic Ligaya Mishan, can be a way “to make sense of chaos” and to also “destabilize the current order.”

Her list of “the 100 Best Restaurants in New York City in 2026” takes that spirit to heart. A taco truck in Queens (Birria-Landia) serving $5 consommé sits alongside a Caribbean fine dining spot in Manhattan (Kabawa) with a $145 tasting menu. Ligaya makes a compelling argument that imaginative, ambitious, delicious food can be found at every price point and in every corner of this city.

On today’s episode, Wesley talks with Ligaya about how she put together such an expansive and inclusive list. They dig into a few of her greatest meals, wrestle with some readers' discomfort with having casual spots ranked next to fine dining restaurants and, most of all, celebrate the culinary wonder that is New York City.

The “Late Show with Stephen Colbert” ends this week. When CBS announced the show’s cancellation last summer, the network said in a statement that it was “purely a financial decision against a challenging backdrop in late night.” There’s still some debate around what happened and why, but for Wesley Morris, the demise of the long-running franchise brought up feelings about another late-night show: “Saturday Night Live.” Maybe, after 51 years, “S.N.L.” should end too.

So Wesley invited Jason Zinoman, a Times critic at large, to discuss “S.N.L.” and the beleaguered state of late-night television. What is worth saving?

Wesley Morris liked “The Devil Wears Prada 2” more than he thought he would. He didn’t need this sequel, but it captures the spirit of the original well enough.

Miranda and Andy, played by Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway, are the same. Miranda still queen and Andy still a grunt. But this time around Andy is a grunt with a staff and a little bit power. She moved on up!

This got Wesley to thinking: What happened to the stories about working class people? Ones about folk with basic, common man smarts being just as good (if not better) than elites at the top? Blue collar workers and the middle class used to dominate the screen. Now their bosses are taking center stage. And so, Wesley looks back on how one onscreen trend led to the other.

The public outrage was inevitable. The New York Times Magazine published a list of the 30 greatest living American songwriters. Two hundred and fifty music insiders submitted ballots. Six Times music critics and writers sorted through it all to get to 30.

For Wesley Morris, it was both daunting and thrilling. Luminaries like Bonnie Raitt, George Clinton, Lin-Manuel Miranda and Mariah Carey submitted ballots. How to honor those submissions while narrowing down and exercising a critic’s judgment?

Nearly 6,000 comments later, one thing is clear: Everybody’s a critic. Many are asking the nagging question, “How can you leave out so-and-so?!” Our critics included! So, Wesley invites a few of the project’s participants, Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli, the hosts of “Popcast,” and Sasha Weiss, a deputy editor of The Times Magazine, to rehash it all out.

“Michael,” the new Michael Jackson biopic, knows what it’s doing. That’s clear from the opening shot: high-water pants and white socks pushed down to a pair of black penny loafers. It’s appealing to a very specific version of our memories of Michael Jackson. The version some of us prefer to hold onto. But in doing so, it avoids the truth.

Our qualms with the King of Pop? Forget about that. Be horrified by Joe Jackson’s abusive parenting. Where’s Janet Jackson and Diana Ross? Nevermind them. Look, it’s Bubbles the chimp! The child molestation allegations? Eh, let’s just play another No. 1 hit instead! Besides, moviegoers are not complaining. “Michael” crushed box office records. With the best opening weekend for a biopic ever, it’s a hit.

None of this comes as a shock to Wesley Morris, but he’s left with some complicated feelings. His pal, the film curator Eric Hynes, shares these feelings, too. Together, they review the movie and wrestle with the Michael Jackson biopic that could have been.

Wesley loves Zendaya. The actress caught his eye as the charming but drug addled Rue in HBO’s “Euphoria.” But he thinks Hollywood hasn’t cast her in roles worthy of her considerable gifts. So when Zendaya showed up in the movie “The Drama” as a young Black woman with a secret from her past that threatens to derail her engagement to Robert Pattinson’s character, Wesley was cautiously optimistic. Here were two of Hollywood’s finest in a complex, high stakes, love affair — one made even more interesting by its interracial realities.

But the movie inexplicably dodges the question of race.

So Wesley invites Gina Cherelus, who covers dating and culture at The New York Times, to help him unpack "The Drama" — what it knows, and doesn’t, about what it’s up to.